In a comment on this post Marc Normans insinuated that his Citizens for Open Government advocacy group has nothing to hide in regards to their financial backingHe’s right. According to the only “publicly available election filing” I could find COG claims they have nothing so they couldn’t possibly hide anything. This was a little dated though. It’s from December 30, 2008.
This was filed before the food workers union signed on with COG and deployed 23 union staff members from both outside HoCo and outside of the state into HoCo over a series of winter weekends to collect signatures for Norman’s petition drive.
Most of those folks would have been hard pressed to find Turf Valley on a map!
That would probably qualify as a donation of services.
This was also prior to initiation of lawsuits against the county that have so far been rejected twice by the federal courts and once by the state court. Somebody is at least paying the filing fees for these suits.
To be fair, Marc did write “As our publicly available election filings will support…." I can only suppose that this means he will be providing additional “publicly available” financial information on COG in the not too distant future.
23 comments:
So, you are anti-union? Just trying to clear this up before it gets ugly.
You can't have it both ways. Pick a side.
BTW--I'm not anonymous! It's such a liberating experience!
Bob O, if only the world were that simple. This is NOT a question of supporting unions. It's all about whether the pot is calling the kettle black. Marc Norman's feet need to be held to the fire about being forthcoming because he sure does that to others. So, Marc, what is the truth?
If anyone has actual proof people were paid illegally to gather signatures, please by all means let us know.
Without that we have WB making outrageous and unfounded accusation of a libelous nature.
WB - What's gotten under your skin? That some bug you got shoved way up there. You're really going out on a limb to condemn with innuendo.
If the information is publicly available, shouldn't you be able to find it? Who's more connected to the developer's attorneys (Dick Talkin and Sang Oh) than you?
In your zeal to uncover the truth, you forgot to mention MD state election filings (which are also publicly available) completely document how the County Executive and 4 out of 5 Councilmembers received contributions from the Turf Valley developers before approving the rezoning that is currently being challenged by referendum petition (and it wasn't even disclosed on their rezoning application!).
You recently asked for computer help. If you want, I'll Google the state election financial reports for you.
Where's the lawsuit against the county? You might want to check your facts. The press reports said that HCCOG filed an administrative challenge of the BoE's decision to invalidate over 80% of the petition signatures. Last time I looked, BoE was a state agency.
Didn't Paul Kendall file the federal lawsuit? I hear it's a constitutional right to vote issue that is before the US Court of Appeals.
Best of all, your Matt Drudge reporting seems to have uncovered a real smoking gun on the money issue. I hear there are lots of people who have contributed time and money to protecting their rights to petition and to vote.
BTW, that's a real purty picture of you and Mama WB under the "hide anything" link. It looks a little dated. Do you have a more recent one?
Gimme A Break
WB at his best. His willing to chase down possibilities here, but when I have offered concrete PROOF of misdeeds perpetrated by ulman and others, he wants to shrug it off and say, I don't see a court verdict against him, or I don't thinks it's a big deal (there are other bigger "crimes" being committed). Very hayduke-esque.
CREDIBILITY = ZERO!!!!!!!!!
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Ummm... all day, and no responses from Marc or anyone else regarding the actual facts surrounding the financial support by unions of the referendum at Turf Valley. Tick tock. Why no response? A curious mind wants to know.
Joanne - you're new around these parts. That's OK, we've got a good nose to smell out a shill for the developers. Really, it was the flies that gave you away. Try creating another pseudonym with a more fragrent personality.
Gimme A Break
Oh, you don't know me, Gimme. But I can sense that your sense of smell was developed in gutter politics, so I guess I am not surprised that you smell stench no matter where you go.
Clearly, WB raised a touchy point, but one that deserves to be answered. If Marc Norman or you or anyone else wants cry "foul" every time something doesn't go your way, that's up to you. But if you are then disingenuous yourselves, don't be surprised. Those who live by the sword...
the point is, joanne, that wb raised no POINT! He made libelous accusations.
Talk about gutter politics...
Joanne - do you have personal issues with the Turf Valley people or are you interested in the government taking money from developers, rezoning their property and then taking away our right to vote and petition?
It looks like you're posting on the wrong site. Why don't you try the disgruntled developers forum? You can probably find their link on the Chamber's website.
Gimme A Break
Gimme (most likely Mark N)…
How hard is it for you to believe that the majority of the community supports the Turf Valley development? This development is needed and will fill a void in this part of the county. I’m looking forward to spending time at the new stores, restaurants, etc.
Before you ask.. no.. I do not work in the development industry and have no connections to any of the players involved in the project.
I was approached by one of the petition representatives at the Waverly Weis and ask to sign to stop “Big Box Stores”. I politely declined and the individual gave me a rude comment. This left a very bad taste in my mouth. It was clear that the individual asking me to sign had no idea what the petition was actually supporting.
I do find it interesting that you and the other anti-development NIMBA’s always attack people and groups that do not support your cause.
Good guess, but you missed by 10 miles.
I'm not a NIMBA and don't care what they build in Turf Valley. You can have that fight with Mark somewhere else. From what I heard, they already had the zoning for stores, restaurants, etc before they paid the pols to rezone their property for more.
WB and his cronies have been smearing the referendum effort through innuendo and arguably libelous accusations that lack proof.
If you want to talk about the government taking our right to vote and petition, then let's have it. Otherwise, why don't you join WB with the naked pictures he linked to in the smear that started this post.
Gimme A Break
Noo,
"If anyone has actual proof people were paid illegally to gather signatures, please by all means let us know.
Without that we have WB making outrageous and unfounded accusation of a libelous nature."
I never asserted that people were paid "illegally." I merely asked a question as to whether COG was receiving financial support from the food workers union. For whatever reason Marc Norman hasn't answered that seemingly simple question.
-wb
Lock, that is no way Marc. If you can't even get that right, how are we supposed to be interested in the remainder of what you said?
Oh,I beg to differ wb. You certainly did say that people were paid and not accounted for,which is of course, illegal.
Gimme... it seems i may indeed owe you an apology... at least in respect to the turf valley side of the equation.. being new to these discussions.... the players and such are all new.
what2010xyz... you proved my point.. thanks... instead of debating the issues and providing detail, facts, opinion... you attack..... your welcome to your opinions but it would be helpful if you stated them.
Well all you lovely people who deflect everytime this question is raised, I will ask it one more time... where is Marc Norman's straightforward answer to the question about union support of the referendum?
If silence persists, I can only assume the worst - not that unions helped, but that Marc Norman won't come clean.
I don't care whether unions supported the referendum efforts in Turf Valley. That is up to them. I do care that people rely on union help but then lie about receiving that help. In politics, credibility is important. Right now, Marc Norman's credibility is on the line - IMHO.
How many times is Marc Norman supposed to answer the same question?
Red Herrings, Straw Men, Hypocritical statements (guilty of the very thing you're accusing).
Not good for supporting your postions.
noo,
"How many times is Marc Norman supposed to answer the same question?"
Just once would be sufficient.
-wb
It's very interesting and quite telling about your agenda that you are trying to deflect attention away from a voting rights issue by trying to disparage one individual.
Mark is not a public official. Just like my neighbors in Columbia it appears that he is one of many local activists that got involved in trying to protect his community from overdevelopment.
As a private citizen, he doesn't owe you or any of the disgruntled developers and lawyers you parrot for an answer.
His statement (May 28, 11:32am) that COG had "not accepted ANY funding from organizations with a financial interest in the Turf Valley referendum" was verified by the Board of Elections financial filing you copied on this post (just above your link to the picture of the naked couple).
When that wasn't good enough for you and your cronies you accused him of turning a phrase and questioned who was paying COG's filing fees ($100?). Once again he wrote, "As our publicly available election filings will support, there isn't any "turning of a phrase"."
Like Columbia and TAG, these people are volunteering their time and money. Your unsupported attacks on private citizens continue to undermine the evaporating credibility you have on zoning and development issues in this county.
So stop whining about people who don't share your Build, Baby, Build agenda. If you want more public information, get off your ass and research it.
Maybe then you can report on the 5 out of 6 elected county officials who took money from the Turf Valley developer before voting to increase their zoning.
Gimme A Break
GMAB: "Build Baby Build". Good one, can I use it?
And just as the "drill baby drill" chokingly obnoxious statement preceded the noxious oil disaster that we'll be living with (and dying with), soon we'll see just what 'build baby build' gets us.
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